Some liberal politicians in the Netherlands have proposed to draft a law on the prohibition of wearing 'burqas', the full body covering kind of dress which also covers the face and which is worn by Muslim women. The reasoning for the law is not only based on the intention "to promote integration and tolerance", but also for reasons of public order, security and the protection of citizens. One can of course argue that, as the amount of women wearing burqas in the Netherlands is approximately 100, such a ban is disproportionate.

Such laws are of course not unique: you might remember the fierce discussion over the wearing of veils in France last year.

What do you think? Is such a ban indeed disproportionate, or is it the best way of tackling the striking humiliation of these women, who are often forced to wear them? 

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It does seem to be a bit excessive - but then I would view any law which banned the covering of faces in public to be excessive, unless there were particular circumstances to justify it.

Personally I take the Mill approach - if the wearing of the burka doesnt cause anyone else any harm then it is ludicrous to make someone who decides to wear it out of doors into a criminal just because the ruling elite dont like it. I subscribe to the view of protecting the rights of minorities to be different and to be protected from what Mill called the "tyranny of the majority". The law, in essence, shouldn't punish people simply for wanting to be different.

There are of course valid points about integration, and need to encourage people of all cultures and all grounds to get along, respect each others differences and, in so far as their consciences will allow them, come to compromise positons on this kind of issue where certain actions may make others feel uncomfortable.

But those kind of measures should generally be confined to the social sphere; when the law gets involved, not only does it tend to get the balance wrong but it can, in the end, be counterproductive to the overall aim of getting along with each other!

Dear Chris

While we are obliged to defend everyone's right to their own culture - and while i agree with your statement wholeheartedly, it is necesary to note that very few if any Women volunteer to wear the Burqa - that is usually thrust upon them by a husband or parent and that it is usually the first step towards a domestic arrangement that says that your husband is right and you as a muslim woman are wholly dependent on this man.

 it is inconceivable that every women in the world will accept their husbands or families telling them what to wear - and while it is true that in the desert the burqa is useful - most of us dont live in the desert anymore.

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Avishkar Govender

eThekwini-Durban
KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa
SADC - AU

Hey

Well chris you do make a good point if it's not bothering any one than why impose on their right to do as they please? The burqa is not something which is required by the Islamic religion and is more of an oppressive cultural tool .  I am fully supportive of religious accomadation and i feel women should be allowed to wear  Hijabs but the Burqa is something which should most definately be banned in any country that values it's equality. It's too bad that we are still at the point in  where it still sounds almost racist to say burqas should be band.

Hi All,

This is a good topic and they are excellent answers.

From my view, the following is what I can say...

According to my knowledge of Islamic teachings, the burqas are not a part of the religion.

It is described as a cultural custom outside of Islam.

From this angle, it must be understood that the ban of the burqa is not limiting anyone's freedom of religion.

Regarding the "harm principle", many people within the Muslim communities felt intimidated by it and called on their representatives to take action agaisnt such an issue.

These appeals are done in liberal countries though.

In illiberal democracies, such a notion cannot take place...and it is causing trouble to many.

I can give you an example from my homecountry, Lebanon.

In the Hezbollah-controlled areas, some women are paid to wear burqas.

None of them chose to wear it out of free will. 

The problem with this approach is that it is not from the heart and it is causing harm to the true religious people who dislike hypocrisy in the community.

Moreover, the burqas became a real problem in Lebanon because many militiamen where hiding under such dress codes and can circulate in the country without being stopped and searched by the Army or the police.

They have been reported to ship weapons to insurgents and planted some explosive in other areas...killing innocent civilians.

It caused real security problems for the nation...

Unfortunately, Lebanon has no choice but to sacrifice it's sovereign liberties to these minority groups who wear such things.

I think that Western nations are learning from places like Lebanon and they are taking preventive measures in order to secure the liberties of all.

We must see it from this perspective, first and foremost!

Regards,

Ali Arz 

ok so i admit it - im a black hindu maddrassi ou - and muslim women have always been like the "forbidden fruit"

but what about Chanel or Dior coming out with a line thats prudent yet glamorous. graceful yet enticing?

and then we wont have ordinarily superhot muslim women running around in things that resemble head to toe cloth sacks

and whats this whole deal about muslim women and children "belonging" to their husbands or fathers?

i agree with hezbollah and other freedom fighters on a lot of things - but a nation will never be free for as long as its women are not free

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Avishkar Govender

eThekwini-Durban
KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa
SADC - AU

this is parody and should not be taken seriously :-)

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Avishkar Govender

eThekwini-Durban
KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa
SADC - AU

Yes - I can only agree.. But great discussion..

 

Regards David

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=virDrRtgm4w

Hi all, I'm new here and frankly I'm a little disturbed at the lax / middle of the way attitudes of your responses.

No one has a right to tell people what they can and cannot wear in public, unless that clothing causes harm. To me, that includes KKK outfits too. The government has no place in legislating people's clothing. Clothing is often a form of expression, and I believe we should waiver not at all with our rights to freedom of speech.

Now, I am sure that many, maybe even a majority, of burqa-wearing women in the western world are forced to wear such clothing and it is that force that needs to be stopped, the answer isn't to ban outright the wearing of a burqa! It is a twisted logic to force women who want to wear a burqa not to, because some small-minded idiots force the women in their lives to wear it. It is not the burqa that is causing the harm, it's the abuse of a culture on it's women.

As for security threats, I have absolutely zero objection to someone having to show their face at an airport / a train station / at any private property, but in public and in one's own home we should be free to wear what we like.

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Personally I take the Mill approach - if the wearing of the burka doesnt cause anyone else any harm then it is ludicrous to make someone who decides to wear it out of doors into a criminal just because the ruling elite dont like it. I subscribe to the view of protecting the rights of minorities to be different and to be protected from what Mill called the "tyranny of the majority". The law, in essence, shouldn't punish people simply for wanting to be different.

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There are of course valid points about integration, and need to encourage people of all cultures and all grounds to get along, respect each others differences and, in so far as their consciences will allow them, come to compromise positons on this kind of issue where certain actions may make others feel uncomfortable.

 

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